{"id":2657,"date":"2011-08-13T09:45:58","date_gmt":"2011-08-13T14:45:58","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/?p=2657"},"modified":"2012-06-10T10:36:33","modified_gmt":"2012-06-10T15:36:33","slug":"how-to-fix-realtek-ethernet-adapter-no-internet-connection-after-windows-driver-update-issue","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/2011\/08\/13\/how-to-fix-realtek-ethernet-adapter-no-internet-connection-after-windows-driver-update-issue\/","title":{"rendered":"How To: Fix Realtek Ethernet Adapter (No Internet Connection) after Windows Driver Update"},"content":{"rendered":"<h2>Windows Networking Driver Update, I know I shouldn&#8217;t click thee&#8230;<\/h2>\n<p>This has happened to me several times. I&#8217;ve got a computer running Windows with a Realtek brand Networking Adapter (the ethernet port where you plug your internet cable into), and I&#8217;ll install a Windows Optional Update (a driver for the adapter), and then my computer can&#8217;t connect to the network anymore.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_2661\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"width: 595px\"><a href=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/The-Windows-Update-screen-looks-something-like-this-although-this-screenshot-does-not-show-a-Realtek-Networking-Controller-Driver.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-large wp-image-2661\" title=\"The Windows Update screen looks something like this, although this screenshot does not show a Realtek Networking Controller Driver\" src=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/The-Windows-Update-screen-looks-something-like-this-although-this-screenshot-does-not-show-a-Realtek-Networking-Controller-Driver-600x592.jpg\" alt=\"The Windows Update screen looks something like this, although this screenshot does not show a Realtek Networking Controller Driver\" width=\"595\" height=\"587\" srcset=\"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/The-Windows-Update-screen-looks-something-like-this-although-this-screenshot-does-not-show-a-Realtek-Networking-Controller-Driver-600x592.jpg 600w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/The-Windows-Update-screen-looks-something-like-this-although-this-screenshot-does-not-show-a-Realtek-Networking-Controller-Driver-150x148.jpg 150w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/The-Windows-Update-screen-looks-something-like-this-although-this-screenshot-does-not-show-a-Realtek-Networking-Controller-Driver-300x296.jpg 300w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/The-Windows-Update-screen-looks-something-like-this-although-this-screenshot-does-not-show-a-Realtek-Networking-Controller-Driver.jpg 680w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 595px) 100vw, 595px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">The Windows Update screen looks something like this, although this screenshot does not show a Realtek Networking Controller Driver<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Fortunately, I have multiple computers, so if one isn&#8217;t able to surf the web for troubleshooting purposes, another is. So if this happened to your one and only internet access point, you&#8217;ve\u00a0probably found this wonderful blog by using a neighbor or friend&#8217;s connection.<\/p>\n<h3>The Fix<\/h3>\n<ol>\n<li>Download the &#8220;Windows Diagnostic Program&#8221; utility from Realtek&#8217;s driver download page, unzip, and install.<\/li>\n<li>Then run the tests and play around with it. I&#8217;m not sure which feature fixes the problem, because the few times I&#8217;ve had to use it it doesn&#8217;t seem to be doing anything, then I suddenly notice my little networking icon doesn&#8217;t have the red &#8220;x&#8221; on it anymore and it&#8217;s connected to the network.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Go here to download the <a title=\"Go to Download Realtek's Windows Diagnostic Utility Program to fix your Network Adapter\" href=\"http:\/\/www.realtek.com\/downloads\/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&amp;PNid=13&amp;PFid=5&amp;Level=5&amp;Conn=4&amp;DownTypeID=3&amp;GetDown=false\" target=\"_blank\">Windows Diagnostic Program<\/a>.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_2666\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"width: 595px\"><a href=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Software-and-Driver-page-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-large wp-image-2666\" title=\"Realtek Software and Driver page - Download Utility to Fix Issue\" src=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Software-and-Driver-page-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue-600x306.jpg\" alt=\"Realtek Software and Driver page - Download Utility to Fix Issue\" width=\"595\" height=\"303\" srcset=\"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Software-and-Driver-page-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue-600x306.jpg 600w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Software-and-Driver-page-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue-150x76.jpg 150w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Software-and-Driver-page-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue-300x153.jpg 300w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Software-and-Driver-page-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue.jpg 756w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 595px) 100vw, 595px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Realtek Software and Driver page - Download Utility to Fix Issue<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<figure id=\"attachment_2658\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"width: 595px\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.realtek.com\/downloads\/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&amp;PNid=13&amp;PFid=5&amp;Level=5&amp;Conn=4&amp;DownTypeID=3&amp;GetDown=false\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-large wp-image-2658 \" title=\"Realtek Networking - Windows Driver Update - Download Utility to Fix Issue\" src=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Networking-Windows-Driver-Update-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue-600x482.jpg\" alt=\"Realtek Networking - Windows Driver Update - Download Utility to Fix Issue\" width=\"595\" height=\"477\" srcset=\"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Networking-Windows-Driver-Update-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue-600x482.jpg 600w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Networking-Windows-Driver-Update-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue-150x120.jpg 150w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Networking-Windows-Driver-Update-Download-Utility-to-Fix-Issue-300x241.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 595px) 100vw, 595px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Realtek Networking - Windows Driver Update - Download Utility to Fix Issue<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>The Realtek utility program is pretty stripped down, so you&#8217;re not going to get lost in it. Just go through, expand the navigation tree (the little &#8220;+&#8221; next the the highlighted &#8220;General&#8221; next to the light bulb icon), and start pushing buttons like &#8220;test&#8221; and &#8220;refresh&#8221; and hopefully it works for you after 5 or 10 minutes. Here&#8217;s a screenshot of what the utility should resemble on your computer.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_2663\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"width: 595px\"><a href=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Diagnostics-Utility_1.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-large wp-image-2663\" title=\"Realtek-Diagnostics-Utility_1-Courtesy-Softopedia.com\" src=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Diagnostics-Utility_1-600x290.png\" alt=\"Realtek-Diagnostics-Utility_1-Courtesy-Softopedia.com\" width=\"595\" height=\"287\" srcset=\"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Diagnostics-Utility_1-600x290.png 600w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Diagnostics-Utility_1-150x72.png 150w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Diagnostics-Utility_1-300x145.png 300w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Diagnostics-Utility_1.png 679w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 595px) 100vw, 595px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Realtek-Diagnostics-Utility_1-Courtesy-Softopedia.com<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<h3>And if that didn&#8217;t work? Try this:<\/h3>\n<p>It&#8217;s likely that Windows doesn&#8217;t like your ethernet adapter in &#8220;auto&#8221; mode.<\/p>\n<h3><a title=\"Next Page\" href=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/index.php\/2011\/08\/13\/how-to-fix-realtek-ethernet-adapter-no-internet-connection-after-windows-driver-update-issue\/2\/\">Next Page for instructions &gt;&gt;<\/a><\/h3>\n<p><!--nextpage--><\/p>\n<h3>And if that didn&#8217;t work? Try this:<\/h3>\n<p>It&#8217;s likely that Windows doesn&#8217;t like your ethernet adapter in &#8220;auto&#8221; mode.<\/p>\n<h4>1.) Go to your &#8220;Network and Sharing Center&#8221;<\/h4>\n<p>click on that little arrow on the bottom right side of your screen (Windows 7), then click on the little picture of a computer (on this laptop it&#8217;s wireless so it has the little white bars) either way your icon should have a red &#8220;X&#8221; on it since you&#8217;re here trying to get it working. Once you click on the networking icon, click &#8220;Open Network and Sharing Center&#8221;.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_3442\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"width: 486px\"><a href=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Windows-7-Taskbar-Go-to-Network-settings-to-fix-your-Ethernet-Adapter.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-3442\" title=\"Windows 7 Taskbar - Go to Network settings to fix your Ethernet Adapter\" src=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Windows-7-Taskbar-Go-to-Network-settings-to-fix-your-Ethernet-Adapter.jpg\" alt=\"Windows 7 Taskbar - Go to Network settings to fix your Ethernet Adapter\" width=\"486\" height=\"233\" srcset=\"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Windows-7-Taskbar-Go-to-Network-settings-to-fix-your-Ethernet-Adapter.jpg 486w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Windows-7-Taskbar-Go-to-Network-settings-to-fix-your-Ethernet-Adapter-150x71.jpg 150w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Windows-7-Taskbar-Go-to-Network-settings-to-fix-your-Ethernet-Adapter-300x143.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 486px) 100vw, 486px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Windows 7 Taskbar - Go to Network settings to fix your Ethernet Adapter<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<h4>2.) Click on &#8220;Change adapter settings&#8221;<\/h4>\n<p>Left side of the screen.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_3439\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"width: 595px\"><a href=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-and-Sharing-Center-Change-adapter-Settings.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-large wp-image-3439\" title=\"Network and Sharing Center - Change adapter Settings\" src=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-and-Sharing-Center-Change-adapter-Settings-600x325.jpg\" alt=\"Network and Sharing Center - Change adapter Settings\" width=\"595\" height=\"322\" srcset=\"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-and-Sharing-Center-Change-adapter-Settings-600x325.jpg 600w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-and-Sharing-Center-Change-adapter-Settings-150x81.jpg 150w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-and-Sharing-Center-Change-adapter-Settings-300x162.jpg 300w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-and-Sharing-Center-Change-adapter-Settings.jpg 680w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 595px) 100vw, 595px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Network and Sharing Center - Change adapter Settings<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<h4>3.) Right-Click on &#8220;Local Area Connection&#8221; and click on &#8220;Properties&#8221;<\/h4>\n<p>Your Local Area Connection will probably have a red &#8220;X&#8221; on it like mine, although I&#8217;m writing this on laptop so this screenshot is different than my computer with the Realtek brand adapter.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_3441\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"width: 473px\"><a href=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connections-Right-click-on-your-adapters-connection-then-click-on-Properties.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-3441\" title=\"Network Connections - Right click on your adapters connection, then click on Properties\" src=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connections-Right-click-on-your-adapters-connection-then-click-on-Properties.jpg\" alt=\"Network Connections - Right click on your adapters connection, then click on Properties\" width=\"473\" height=\"419\" srcset=\"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connections-Right-click-on-your-adapters-connection-then-click-on-Properties.jpg 473w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connections-Right-click-on-your-adapters-connection-then-click-on-Properties-150x132.jpg 150w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connections-Right-click-on-your-adapters-connection-then-click-on-Properties-300x265.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 473px) 100vw, 473px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Network Connections - Right click on your adapters connection, then click on Properties<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p><span class=\"Apple-style-span\" style=\"font-size: 18px; line-height: 21px;\">4.) In &#8220;Local Area Connection Properties,&#8221; click the &#8220;Configure&#8221; button<\/span><\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_3438\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"width: 382px\"><a href=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Local-Area-Connections-Properties-click-Configure-button.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-3438\" title=\"Local Area Connections Properties - click Configure button\" src=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Local-Area-Connections-Properties-click-Configure-button.jpg\" alt=\"Local Area Connections Properties - click Configure button\" width=\"382\" height=\"490\" srcset=\"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Local-Area-Connections-Properties-click-Configure-button.jpg 382w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Local-Area-Connections-Properties-click-Configure-button-116x150.jpg 116w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Local-Area-Connections-Properties-click-Configure-button-233x300.jpg 233w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 382px) 100vw, 382px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Local Area Connections Properties - click Configure button<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<h4>5.) Network Connection Properties &#8211; highlight &#8220;Link Speed &amp; Duplex&#8221;, then in the dropdown menu to the right, select &#8220;100Mbps Full Duplex&#8221;, then click &#8220;OK&#8221; button<\/h4>\n<p>Your Local Area Connection may not like being in &#8220;Auto&#8221; or &#8220;Auto Negotiation&#8221; mode anymore. Why? I don&#8217;t know. Try 100Mbps Full Duplex mode, if that doesn&#8217;t solve your connectivity issue, try some of the other full duplex options.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_3440\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"width: 414px\"><a href=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connection-Properties-highlight-Link-Speed-and-Duplex-dropdown-and-select-100Mbps-Full-Duplex-click-OK-button.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-3440\" title=\"Network Connection Properties - highlight Link Speed and Duplex, dropdown and select 100Mbps Full Duplex - click OK button\" src=\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connection-Properties-highlight-Link-Speed-and-Duplex-dropdown-and-select-100Mbps-Full-Duplex-click-OK-button.jpg\" alt=\"Network Connection Properties - highlight Link Speed and Duplex, dropdown and select 100Mbps Full Duplex - click OK button\" width=\"414\" height=\"461\" srcset=\"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connection-Properties-highlight-Link-Speed-and-Duplex-dropdown-and-select-100Mbps-Full-Duplex-click-OK-button.jpg 414w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connection-Properties-highlight-Link-Speed-and-Duplex-dropdown-and-select-100Mbps-Full-Duplex-click-OK-button-134x150.jpg 134w, https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Network-Connection-Properties-highlight-Link-Speed-and-Duplex-dropdown-and-select-100Mbps-Full-Duplex-click-OK-button-269x300.jpg 269w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 414px) 100vw, 414px\" \/><\/a><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">Network Connection Properties - highlight Link Speed and Duplex, dropdown and select 100Mbps Full Duplex - click OK button<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<h4>6.) Did it work? If not&#8230;<\/h4>\n<p>Try looking online for info on how to change a Registry value (from say, 0 to 1, or vice versa). Maybe a Google search for [Ethernet Adapter, problem, registry,] will get you on track. I&#8217;ve had to do this before after a Microsoft Update of an Ethernet Adapter&#8217;s Driver, and it solved the problem. But, because I&#8217;m not having that issue right now, I&#8217;m not going on a research dig for that particular info. Registries are touchy things, so don&#8217;t make any change that isn&#8217;t necessary.<\/p>\n<h3>Moral of the story:<\/h3>\n<p>Do not, under any circumstance, install an optional Windows Update for an Ethernet Adapter, NIC (network controller) or anything of the sort if you&#8217;re able to connect to the internet already! Some people can&#8217;t resist biting nails or picking scabs; I can&#8217;t resist installing many optional Windows Updates, even when there&#8217;s a very good chance it&#8217;s going to result in at least an hour of troubleshooting and wasted time. Learn from my compulsions. Good luck!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>ISSUE: After installing a Windows Update for Realtek Networking Adapter, your computer won&#8217;t connect to the internet. This How-To blog explains the Utility that usually fixes that problem.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":2662,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_editorskit_title_hidden":false,"_editorskit_reading_time":0,"_editorskit_is_block_options_detached":false,"_editorskit_block_options_position":"{}","inline_featured_image":false,"kt_blocks_editor_width":"","_kad_blocks_custom_css":"","_kad_blocks_head_custom_js":"","_kad_blocks_body_custom_js":"","_kad_blocks_footer_custom_js":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[5],"tags":[95,135,198,103,177,188,36,404],"class_list":["post-2657","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-rants","tag-computer","tag-diy","tag-fix","tag-install","tag-instructions","tag-microsoft","tag-tutorial","tag-windows"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"taxonomy_info":{"category":[{"value":5,"label":"Rants"}],"post_tag":[{"value":95,"label":"computer"},{"value":135,"label":"DIY"},{"value":198,"label":"Fix"},{"value":103,"label":"install"},{"value":177,"label":"instructions"},{"value":188,"label":"Microsoft"},{"value":36,"label":"tutorial"},{"value":404,"label":"Windows"}]},"featured_image_src_large":["https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Realtek-Network-Adapter-NIC-chip.jpg",597,290,false],"author_info":{"display_name":"Kris Bunda","author_link":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/author\/kris-bunda\/"},"comment_info":2,"category_info":[{"term_id":5,"name":"Rants","slug":"rants","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":5,"taxonomy":"category","description":"Posts focusing on off-topics, tangents, rascals, etc\u2026","parent":0,"count":32,"filter":"raw","cat_ID":5,"category_count":32,"category_description":"Posts focusing on off-topics, tangents, rascals, 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