- \n
- I installed my Nest Learning Thermostat, then turned on the AC\u00a0unit and furnace’s breakers.<\/li>\n
- It found several neighborhood\u00a0wireless networks, I selected my own, and then entered the security code.<\/li>\n
- It connected immediately to the internet through\u00a0my router.<\/li>\n
- It downloaded software updates, installed them, and suddenly couldn’t connect to my network anymore.\n
- \n
- Nothing had been changed in my router settings up to that point.<\/li>\n
- The only variable that had been changed was that the Nest t-stat installed new software on itself and then suddenly couldn’t communicate with a router it had just successfully used to download the software\u00a0one minute earlier.<\/li>\n
- It could still see the SSIDs (broadcasted names) of neighborhood wi-fi networks, but wouldn’t connect.<\/li>\n
- The error message said\u00a0to visit\u00a0nest.com\/w2<\/a>.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
![\"Nest](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Nest-Learning-Thermostat-wifi-router-fail-to-connect-W2-error-message-600x333.jpg\")
<\/a>Nest Learning Thermostat wifi router fail to connect W2 error message<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n I’m Sorry Dave, I’m Afraid I Can’t Do Wi-Fi\u00a0(After Installing An “Upgrade”)<\/h3>\n
The “W2” error web page explained how my router may be blocking the Nest because it has\u00a0MAC<\/abbr><\/strong><\/span> address filtering turned on. But it did not. What it should<\/em>\u00a0also say is: Try fiddling with your router’s security settings.<\/p>\n
![\"2014:](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Im-sorry-Dave-Im-afraid-I-cant-do-that-Nest-Thermostat-router-problem-600x533.jpg\")
<\/a>2014: A Space Heating Odyssey – I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that (since I “upgraded” myself).<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n I called Nest support and told\u00a0a person that\u00a0it worked at first, then updated itself, then\u00a0broke<\/a>. After power cycling the router didn’t fix it, and because the model number is alphanumerically similar to another router on Nest’s Unsupported Routers list, he assumed it was the router’s fault and suggested I call Netgear support to figure it out.<\/p>\n
Netgear doesn’t (for free) phone-support anything older than 90 days. So I started writing a support ticket. And then it dawned on me how stupid it sounded to blame Netgear for a device that worked just fine with it until it “upgraded” itself \u2014\u00a0as if that would be the router’s fault. So I called Nest back.<\/p>\n
![\"3](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/3-different-bored-Maytag-repair-men.jpg\")
<\/a>Bored Maytag Repair Men<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n The Nest support person was the same one I had talked with an hour or so before. Maybe they’re like the Maytag Man, and no one has problems with their products (except me). But it’s nice to have 24\/7 service. Anyway, he promptly blamed my router again. I became annoyed.<\/p>\n
I walked through the chronology, again. And then again. And then at least a third time.<\/span><\/p>\n
- \n
- The thermostat networked, then didn’t.<\/li>\n
- The Nest had changed its settings via update, but the router settings had not changed.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
Still,\u00a0for some reason this was the router’s fault, according to Nest Guy. He kept patiently explaining to me how the router must have changed itself after interfacing with the Nest Learning Thermostat, and that clearly the Nest worked because it recognized <\/span>SSID<\/abbr><\/strong><\/span>\u00a0broadcasts (ha). This almost certainly could not be a bug with the software update, I was told, because it had recently been rewritten by engineers with wi-fi compatibility in mind,\u00a0and now he received only a third of the networking troubleshooting calls as before.<\/span><\/p>\n
I then\u00a0asked if I could reset the t-stat to factory defaults and then not update it. Or somehow “downgrade” the operating system. I was told I could not, or if I did, it would just re-update itself as soon as it connected to the internet.<\/p>\n
I eventually got peeved to the point\u00a0that I asked him to annotate my account with the following information, a slightly longer version of “Worked, Then Didn’t, Only Nest Changed Settings, Not Router.” Then I said if I can’t figure it out I will call back and expect to be escalated to someone who understands networking better.<\/p>\n
How My Nest Finally Started Talking to My Netgear Again<\/h3>\n
I finally tried removing the security from my network and just leaving it “open”. This finally worked with the Nest. But I wasn’t going to leave it that way for long.<\/p>\n
Apparently the WEP key scheme I’ve used for wi-fi security for close to a decade is now incompatible with the Nest Learning Thermostat. But it has never been a problem for any other device. From wi-fi photo frames to Kindles to wireless networked printers to myriad laptops to\u00a0smart phones.<\/p>\n
Well, to clarify again: The Nest is<\/em><\/span><\/strong> compatible with WEP\u00a0out of the box, but then after it uses that security scheme to access the internet and update itself to the latest and greatest software, it’s not going to be compatible with WEP any\u00a0longer.<\/p>\n
![\"Netgear](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Netgear-WNR3500v1-access-wifi-settings-security-WEP-key-Nest-Thermostat-compat.jpg\")
<\/a>Netgear WNR3500v1 access point wifi settings, WEP wi-fi security key, Nest Learning Thermostat incompatibility problem<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n After hours of aggravated fiddling with Nest settings, resetting networks on both the thermostat and the router many times, and 2 calls into Nest customer service, I finally got it to work when I changed from a 64-bit WEP<\/abbr><\/strong><\/span> encryption to\u00a0WPA2-PSK [AES]<\/abbr><\/strong><\/span> on my router’s Wireless Settings>Security Options<\/em> admin page.<\/p>\n
![\"Netgear](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Netgear-WNR3500-router-admin-manager-page-security-WEP-WPA2-PSK-Nest-Thermostat-600x330.jpg\")
<\/a>Netgear WNR3500 router manager page, security changed from WEP to WPA2-PSK, for Nest Thermostat compatibility<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n After that, the t-stat and the router seem to be fast friends forever.<\/p>\n
Still Impressed, Even if Hours of Time Wasted<\/h3>\n
It works now, even if no thanks to customer service and many more hours than budgeted were spent on install. So that’s good. I think Nest engineers are continuously working on supporting this product and working out bugs.\u00a0If that’s true, this bug will hopefully be fixed soon, making this post irrelevant. But until then, I hope it helps someone who can’t figure out why their new Nest Learning Thermostat connected to their router just fine until it updated itself! Makes the “Learning” moniker a tad ironic.<\/p>\n
![\"Nest](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Nest-Learning-Thermostat-wireless-problems-theyre-working-on-it-513x600.jpg\")
<\/a>Nest Learning Thermostat wireless problems? They’re working on it!<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n Installation Photos and: Want to Hear a Good Story About Nest Customer Service?<\/h3>\n
- \n
- Check out the next page for a little on the customized help I received from Nest representatives when I didn’t know if a “Learning Thermostat” would be compatible with my system, nor how to wire it.<\/li>\n
- Also a little on my installation experience (it was real freakin’ easy – except the whole wi-fi thing I just spent a thousand words complaining about, but enough of that).<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n
Read More, Next Page:<\/a><\/strong>
\n<\/h3>\nThe Good Customer Service Story; Some Installation Pics<\/h2>\n
<\/p>\n
Can I even use a Nest t-stat on\u00a0my system?<\/h3>\n
That was my question. After reading several stories about people saving enough money with these over time to pay for themselves ($250 for a single-zone programmable t-stat sounds ridiculous otherwise), I decided I wanted one. I also took the precaution to download the last 5 years of gas and electricity usage for my home from my utility company. Perhaps in a year or two I’ll make a comparison post.<\/p>\n
To find out if Nest would work with my current wiring, I emailed\u00a0Nest service and they asked for a photo of my current t-stat’s wiring. I sent them the following pics and they sent me back a customized wiring diagram, even going so far as to change the color of the wire that goes into Y1 terminal to blue, as it is colored at my house. (A nice touch and thoughtful\u00a0detail\u00a0since when using the consumer version of the wiring configurator on their site, the Y1 wire will always appear yellow, and that may confuse some installers).<\/p>\n
![\"Nest](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Nest-Compatibility-HVAC-Controls-Mid-1970s-thermostat-1-face-600x396.jpg\")
<\/a>Face<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n ![\"Nest](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Nest-Compatibility-HVAC-Controls-Mid-1970s-thermostat-2-mid_plate-600x452.jpg\")
<\/a>Mid Plate<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n ![\"Nest](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Nest-Compatibility-HVAC-Controls-Mid-1970s-thermostat-3-back_plate-600x451.jpg\")
<\/a>Back Plate, wiring<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n ![\"Nest](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Nest-Compatibility-HVAC-Controls-Mid-1970s-thermostat-4-back_of_mid_plate-e1404132165958-391x600.jpg\")
<\/a><\/p>\n![\"Nest:](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Nest-Your-Custom-Wiring-Diagram-Guide-online-configurator-wire-color.jpg\")
<\/a>Nest: Your Custom Wiring Diagram Guide – online configurator version I made, notice\u00a0wire color<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n ![\"Nest](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Nest-Your-Custom-Wiring-Diagram-Guide-customer-service-538x600.jpg\")
<\/a>Nest customer service: Your Custom Wiring Diagram Guide<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n Installation<\/h3>\n
- \n
- Read the simple instruction booklet from the Nest box.<\/li>\n
- Print or have tablet\/phone\/laptop copy of your wiring diagram ready.<\/li>\n
- Go to your breaker box and shut off the HVAC mechanical equipment. In my case, 2 large 30 amp breakers for the air conditioner and a 20 amp breaker for the forced-air furnace fan (the heat is natural gas).<\/li>\n
- Remove wires from old controller thermostat, but put your letter stickers on them if you think that’s helpful.<\/li>\n
- This is where:\n
- \n
- I taught the children how to spackle and let them get their fingers messy.<\/li>\n
- My wife slapped a couple coats of paint on the rectangular unpainted void left by the old t-stat.<\/li>\n
- This way I didn’t have to use a backer plate and could take advantage of a sleeker look.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n
- I inserted the wires in the terminal ring, screwed it into the drywall using the included Nest screwdriver (these should be self tapping screws into soft drywall for many people, and as long as you don’t over-tighten, you’ll be solid).<\/li>\n
- I pushed the t-stat onto the terminal ring until a click was heard, as per instructions.<\/li>\n
- I turned on the breakers.<\/li>\n
- Everything worked like a charm (except the wi-fi thing, see beginning of post).<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
![\"Nest](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Nest-Learning-Thermostat-home-installation-after-spackling-painting-area-600x293.jpg\" "\\"I")
<\/a>Nest Learning Thermostat – home installation after spackling, painting area. I still haven’t taken the protective sticker off the face yet, if you’re wondering what that little tab\u00a0hanging down is.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n
\nUPDATE: Almost 2 Years of Utility Bills Later [Chart]<\/h2>\n
I’m not in any way convinced that almost 2 years of utility bills means anything statistically significant. But I downloaded 5yrs of billing data from my utility co. today and made an Excel line chart from it anyway.<\/p>\n
In my opinion, this last winter (the season I spend the most on energy) was abnormally warm. The year before that may have been average or cooler, but I don’t know. Perhaps it would make more sense if I listed the “therms” used in this chart, since my furnace uses natural gas, and how many were used per year could be a better indicator of efficiency changes. Especially if you consider that rates charged per energy unit will change over time, maybe Dollars aren’t the best measure\u00a0to isolate the effects of a thermostat or insulation change. So included is a Therms Used chart also.<\/p>\n
Pre-chart-period, we added a bunch of cellulose insulation to our attic, and a year ago I pulled out all the fiberglass bats from the band joist and replaced with cut-and-fitted 4″ of pink foam board with spray foamed gaps. I really feel that made a difference, and will pay for itself within 7yrs or less.<\/p>\n
Notes on what other HVAC equipment was changed during the charted period: Nothing, really. We got a new furnace and barely-used central AC external unit installed in the summer of 2009, and that equipment hasn’t changed since. The hot water heater is still pre-chart-period.<\/p>\n
Here’s the charts, for what it’s worth.<\/p>\n
![\"CHART,](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/MID-AMERICAN-BILLING-2009-2016-BOTH-GAS-ELEC_15048_image001-1200x329.png\")
<\/a>CHART, 2YRS AFTER NEST THERMOSTAT, UTILITY BILLING 2009-2016, BOTH GAS & ELEC<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n ![\"UTILITY](\"http:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/UTILITY-BILLING-2009-2016-NATURAL-GAS-THERMS-2YRS-AFTER-NEST-THERMOSTAT-BAND-SILL-INSULATION-1200x328.png\")
<\/a>UTILITY BILLING 2009-2016 – NATURAL GAS THERMS – 2YRS AFTER NEST THERMOSTAT & BAND SILL INSULATION<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Nest Learning Thermostat: Installed, Fired right up, Used my router to download software, Then promptly updated itself into incompatibility with the wifi network. (Plus: Some Installation Info)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":5408,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_editorskit_title_hidden":false,"_editorskit_reading_time":0,"_editorskit_is_block_options_detached":false,"_editorskit_block_options_position":"{}","inline_featured_image":false,"kt_blocks_editor_width":"","_kad_blocks_custom_css":"","_kad_blocks_head_custom_js":"","_kad_blocks_body_custom_js":"","_kad_blocks_footer_custom_js":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[5],"tags":[547,548,296,624,161,257,116,103,542,545,543,544,541,245,546],"class_list":["post-5403","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-rants","tag-controls","tag-customer-service","tag-energy","tag-geodata","tag-home","tag-home-improvement","tag-hvac","tag-install","tag-nest","tag-netgear","tag-networking","tag-router","tag-thermostat","tag-troubleshooting","tag-wi-fi"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"taxonomy_info":{"category":[{"value":5,"label":"Rants"}],"post_tag":[{"value":547,"label":"controls"},{"value":548,"label":"customer service"},{"value":296,"label":"energy"},{"value":624,"label":"geodata"},{"value":161,"label":"home"},{"value":257,"label":"home improvement"},{"value":116,"label":"HVAC"},{"value":103,"label":"install"},{"value":542,"label":"Nest"},{"value":545,"label":"Netgear"},{"value":543,"label":"networking"},{"value":544,"label":"router"},{"value":541,"label":"Thermostat"},{"value":245,"label":"troubleshooting"},{"value":546,"label":"Wi-Fi"}]},"featured_image_src_large":["https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Im-sorry-Dave-Im-afraid-I-cant-do-that-Nest-Thermostat-router-problem-600x533.jpg",600,533,true],"author_info":{"display_name":"Kris Bunda","author_link":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/author\/kris-bunda\/"},"comment_info":23,"category_info":[{"term_id":5,"name":"Rants","slug":"rants","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":5,"taxonomy":"category","description":"Posts focusing on off-topics, tangents, rascals, etc\u2026","parent":0,"count":32,"filter":"raw","cat_ID":5,"category_count":32,"category_description":"Posts focusing on off-topics, tangents, rascals, etc\u2026","cat_name":"Rants","category_nicename":"rants","category_parent":0}],"tag_info":[{"term_id":547,"name":"controls","slug":"controls","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":555,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":4,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":548,"name":"customer service","slug":"customer-service","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":556,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":1,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":296,"name":"energy","slug":"energy","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":296,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":2,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":624,"name":"geodata","slug":"geodata","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":628,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":7,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":161,"name":"home","slug":"home","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":161,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":23,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":257,"name":"home improvement","slug":"home-improvement","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":257,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":13,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":116,"name":"HVAC","slug":"hvac","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":116,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning","parent":0,"count":6,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":103,"name":"install","slug":"install","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":103,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":11,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":542,"name":"Nest","slug":"nest","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":550,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":1,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":545,"name":"Netgear","slug":"netgear","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":553,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":1,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":543,"name":"networking","slug":"networking","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":551,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":3,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":544,"name":"router","slug":"router","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":552,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":2,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":541,"name":"Thermostat","slug":"thermostat","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":549,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":1,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":245,"name":"troubleshooting","slug":"troubleshooting","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":245,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":4,"filter":"raw"},{"term_id":546,"name":"Wi-Fi","slug":"wi-fi","term_group":0,"term_taxonomy_id":554,"taxonomy":"post_tag","description":"","parent":0,"count":2,"filter":"raw"}],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/06\/Im-sorry-Dave-Im-afraid-I-cant-do-that-Nest-Thermostat-router-problem.jpg","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p1NcZe-1p9","amp_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5403","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5403"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5403\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/5408"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5403"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5403"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/krisbunda.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5403"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}